tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post2556968913375655571..comments2023-12-23T03:43:29.570-08:00Comments on BI Polar: ThinkPad Keyboard MadnessMatthew Rochehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17230399970488763978noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-21808986086092993142011-12-19T05:51:17.247-08:002011-12-19T05:51:17.247-08:00I suppose I have decided to purchase a new laptop...I suppose I have decided to purchase a new <a href="http://www.ewoomall.com/dr0901-uv-gel-lamp-light-nail-dryer-pro-finish-quick-dry-9w-p-866354.html" rel="nofollow">laptop</a><br />and ThinkPad is one of my choices.luckyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00189458316021364907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-69345486093397077272011-01-24T07:55:37.657-08:002011-01-24T07:55:37.657-08:00And you don't even mention vi! I agree with y...And you don't even mention vi! I agree with you -- the Ctrl key placement is critical for all sorts of keyboard interfaces. There's no excuse for putting it anywhere other than the lower left corner. And if you generate a proper scancode and key press/release codes for the Fn key then the end user can modify the virtual key placement.JohnWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01392588199311283386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-18970919381661326852010-01-27T21:21:39.529-08:002010-01-27T21:21:39.529-08:00My new Thinkpad 410 allows you to switch the Fn/Ct...My new Thinkpad 410 allows you to switch the Fn/Ctrl key in the bios. There is a god!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16931484076643167370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-22928182906781694282009-11-06T11:49:36.130-08:002009-11-06T11:49:36.130-08:00It looks like future Thinkpad models will allow yo...It looks like future Thinkpad models will allow you to switch the ctrl and fn keys in the BIOS.<br /><br />http://lenovoblogs.com/yamato/?p=518&language=enRobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14479991920949908048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-71041502338885003402009-09-30T00:28:08.673-07:002009-09-30T00:28:08.673-07:00Matthew,
You could be on to something here - regar...Matthew,<br />You could be on to something here - regarding only using laptop keyboards. I've noticed that when I go back to using my old Compaq laptop, I do miss the F-keys sometimes (on that keyboard, the Esc is to the left of F1, not above it). From some reason it never happens with desktop keyboards. Maybe the brain has two separate schemes - one for laptops, one for desktops. ;)Dimahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09089568682428086209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-39615898885241061382009-09-29T09:01:42.961-07:002009-09-29T09:01:42.961-07:00@Dima - Perhaps your fingers are smarter than mine...@Dima - Perhaps your fingers are smarter than mine. Perhaps it's the fact that I work only on laptops and not on desktops. Who knows? I'm glad that you're happy and successful, but I'm closing on a year with my ThinkPad and I still swear at the keyboard (typically the function keys these days and not the Fn-ctrl keys) more than once a day. Your mileage may vary...Matthew Rochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17230399970488763978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-83053267191639864442009-09-28T03:10:14.059-07:002009-09-28T03:10:14.059-07:00I found this page through the Lenovo blogs. Being ...I found this page through the Lenovo blogs. Being a software developer, a PC power user and a long-time Thinkpad user myself, I decided to post, just to give a slightly different perspective.<br /><br />I make use of keyboard shortcuts involving Ctrl and other keys all the time. Really all the time. While developing, while using Office programs, I even map shortcut keys to the links on my desktop. I also use the Fn-shortcuts on my Thinkpad.<br /><br />I've been working for years with both laptops and desktops, both laptop keyboard with Fn on the bottom left, and desktop keyboards with Ctrl there. I frequently go between the two keyboard layouts multiple times within the same day/week.<br /><br />And guess what - I found out that I never confuse Ctrl with Fn. It's like my fingers know the difference between a desktop and a laptop keyboard.<br /><br />What I'm trying to say, is that, while some people might find it very difficult to adjust, for many, it wouldn't be as big an issue as they might perceive it.<br /><br />There are definitely more annoying things that one can do with the keyboard layout. For instance rearranging the 6 navigation keys (Ins/Del/Home/End/Pgup/Pgdn), which, alas, Lenovo started doing with the T400s, or sticking the Windows key in some ridiculous spot, like on some Toshibas...<br /><br />BTW, Thinkpads are not the only laptops with the Fn-Ctrl layout. I've seen it on a number of models from MSI, ASUS, some LGs. Overall I'd say about 10% of the laptops have it. Incidentally, my first laptop, the Compaq Evo N610c, also has Fn-Ctrl.<br /><br />Just something to think about.Dimahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09089568682428086209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-91424982345768827602009-07-30T11:53:57.040-07:002009-07-30T11:53:57.040-07:00@seaweedsteve - totally agreed about my root probl...@seaweedsteve - totally agreed about my root problem being that the ThinkPad layout isn't what my fingers are used to. But the key thing here is that there's "the ThinkPad way" and "the way that every other computer keyboard ever made uses." I have used and owned dozens of laptops from Dell, Toshiba, Gateway, HP, Compaq, Acer and other manufacturers and every single one of them has had the Ctrl key in the bottom left corner. Every one. So could I simply accept the ThinkPad layout as the new standard? Probably, but that would mean that when I used any other computer (and I still regularly use two Dells and one Toshiba) I would need to retrain again. For me, it's not worth the cost.Matthew Rochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17230399970488763978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-55688363257976619722009-07-29T14:25:52.006-07:002009-07-29T14:25:52.006-07:00Key location works for me. It's really a matte...Key location works for me. It's really a matter of what you are used to. Many of of us like how it is. <br /><br />I'm on my third year of Thinkpad keyboards and I like the way it works. Fn key on the lower left has some advantages and I never mistake it for the control key.<br /><br />Your issue is mostly that it's not the same as other keyboards. <br /><br />I have the same problem when I switch keyboards working on other pcs. They don't seem to have the delete or backspace keys right.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12282458643662613791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-22418971571217674462009-07-27T17:34:23.141-07:002009-07-27T17:34:23.141-07:00@WYLES - The oversized ESC key looks like a step i...@WYLES - The oversized ESC key looks like a step in the right direction, as it will put the F keys in the "correct" position.<br /><br />@James and Basil - None of the available software tools remap the Fn key, and switching the Ctrl and Alt would just (for me, anyway) make things worse. Thanks for the pointers, but no thanks.Matthew Rochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17230399970488763978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-57784817908903891462009-07-05T03:26:07.504-07:002009-07-05T03:26:07.504-07:00Well, IBM\Lenovo have an application available for...Well, IBM\Lenovo have an application available for download, called Keyboard Customizer. You can find it on the driver page for your machine, updating the drivers/bios is a good idea anyway. I am not sure it allows you to remap Fn key, but you certainly can remap other Ctrl\Alt keys to your heart's content. Hope this helps. Or maybe get used to it - I did about 12 years ago ))vasilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14307964808712371676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-90669056836989751632009-06-28T17:34:50.995-07:002009-06-28T17:34:50.995-07:00Here's a tip... switch the ctrl and alt keys u...Here's a tip... switch the ctrl and alt keys using some remapping software. Use ctrl with your thumb. Problem solved. <br /><br />Same way mac keyboards are (command is right next to the spacebar). A thumb can handle a lot more pressing than a pinky.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09502074235967050851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-9714742630027972852009-06-19T11:49:14.800-07:002009-06-19T11:49:14.800-07:00I just found this on the new unreleased ThinkPad T...I just found this on the new unreleased ThinkPad T400S. There are a few changes to the keyboard such as larger ESC and Delete keys, as well as a one-key leftward shift of PrtSc, ScrLk, Pause, and Insert keys. Looks like the usual Fn, CTRL placements are still in place<br />http://jkontherun.com/2009/06/11/thinkpad-t400s-arrives-thin-and-light-14-inch/Wyleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04973469677734258088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-46996920875746100442009-06-19T10:21:25.867-07:002009-06-19T10:21:25.867-07:00That would definitely be cool if they listened to ...That would definitely be cool if they listened to customer feedback and made some changes. It would be INFINITELY MORE COOL if they sold replacement keyboards for existing models (namely the X300 ;-) so that current customers could start loving everything about their machines.Matthew Rochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17230399970488763978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-63156456065293124362009-06-19T08:08:09.494-07:002009-06-19T08:08:09.494-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Wyleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04973469677734258088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-54612399316943698492009-06-19T08:05:49.791-07:002009-06-19T08:05:49.791-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Wyleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04973469677734258088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-24569909136396711272009-04-08T12:36:00.000-07:002009-04-08T12:36:00.000-07:00@Sax - That doesn't work for the Fn key. It only w...@Sax - That doesn't work for the Fn key. It only works for keys with codes that can get intercepted by the OS, which this does not.Matthew Rochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17230399970488763978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-13401106018079688972009-04-08T12:35:00.000-07:002009-04-08T12:35:00.000-07:00Good luck, Kate!I've been using my ThinkPad daily ...Good luck, Kate!<BR/><BR/>I've been using my ThinkPad daily for almost six months now (probably averaging 50 hours/week at the keyboard) and this continues to frustrate and infuriate me EVERY DAY. <BR/><BR/>The one that gets me most often these days is the function key offset. Because the Esc key is above the function keys, all of the F-ing F keys are to the left of where they should be. A dozen or more times each day I hit F3 (search) when I mean to hit F2 (rename) to rename a file.<BR/><BR/>And it's a shame, because the X300 is otherwise a wonderful machine. But it's the only Lenovo I will EVER own...Matthew Rochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17230399970488763978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-8553546017052711012009-04-07T20:30:00.000-07:002009-04-07T20:30:00.000-07:00I'm sending the damn T400 back. That's how strong...I'm sending the damn T400 back. That's how strongly I feel that it is ridiculous to have the ctrl/fn keys swapped. I'll be fighting to get the 15% (gack) restocking fee waived through my Visa card. <BR/><BR/>My argument is that Lenovo clearly knows about new customers' dissatisfaction with this issue, as it comes up on their own blog. If there had been a clear picture of the keyboard (there was not), I would have had the information to make an informed decision: to NOT buy this computer.<BR/><BR/>The customer service rep said if keyboards were so important to me, I should have done my due diligence and asked about key placement. What? How in the world would I have ever thought to ask if those keys were swapped? Should I have asked if the 'k' was in the proper place? If the '2' was where it should be?<BR/><BR/>I did, in fact, make a call before purchasing to confirm the placement of the 'six-pack', the ins/del/home/end/pg up/pg dn keys. I told that rep I was asking because I'm a touch-typist, and keyboard configuration is important to me, and I know that the 'six-pack' placement does vary from laptop to laptop depending on the manufacturer.<BR/><BR/>But the sales rep made no mention of the ctrl/fn key placement.<BR/><BR/>So wish me luck in getting my $185 re-stocking fee. And if keyboard configuration is important to you, use Google Image to search for the laptop name you're getting with 'keyboard' to get a full-sized picture before you purchase your laptop.<BR/><BR/>By the way, I'm now looking at the Dell Latitude E6400, which appears to have the keyboard configuration which is most similar to a desktop keyboard (ESC next to the F-keys, 6-pack together and above the F-keys, ctrl/fn in lower left in proper order and no annoying browser back/forth buttons over the left/right arrows). It also has the anti-glare screen (matte finish) which I so crave, and don't understand why it has such limited availability any more. Glossy screens are ever-so-annoying, reflecting any movement and light shift. And I'm not that big of a fan of seeing my own face reflected back at me any time I'm on a dark image. :-pUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06923777496735602321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-15454275039368104052009-03-10T13:09:00.000-07:002009-03-10T13:09:00.000-07:00Microsoft has an official tool for remapping your ...Microsoft has an official tool for remapping your keyboard, try switching Fn and Ctrl. I have a Thinkpad, by the way.<BR/>It's in this pack <A HREF="http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=9d467a69-57ff-4ae7-96ee-b18c4790cffd&displaylang=en" REL="nofollow">here.</A><BR/><BR/>Hope it works out for you.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16951963684540135813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-8168853287477901262008-12-08T05:46:00.000-08:002008-12-08T05:46:00.000-08:00@Rob - Although I agree that the ThinkPad is very ...@Rob - Although I agree that the ThinkPad is very well built, I can't get over the key placement. I waited two months of regularly using the ThinkPad as my primary machine before I posted this rant, and I think that two months should be more than enough time to get used to a poor design if you're ever going to get used to ut. ;-)<BR/><BR/>My personal favorite keyboard is the one on my Dell Inspiron 9400. It has solid keys that provide excellent tactile feedback when typing, and has all keys (including the Ins/Del/Home/End/PageUp/PageDn keys) in logical and convenient places. Take a look at this:<BR/><BR/>http://www.laptop-adapter.net/images/Dell-Inspiron-9200-Keyboard.jpgMatthew Rochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17230399970488763978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-37906440848518602962008-12-06T15:36:00.000-08:002008-12-06T15:36:00.000-08:00I agree with you on the placement of the function ...I agree with you on the placement of the function key. It used to drive me crazy when I got my first Thinkpad 8 years ago. I have since gotten used to it, and the other benefits of the Thinkpad far outweigh that one drawback.<BR/><BR/>The keyboard is by far the best feeling laptop keyboard I have used. Also, the biggest thing for me is the ins/del/home/end/page up/page down block. The Thinkpads are the only laptop keyboards that seem to get this right. All the other makes put it in a stupid line down the right side and I can never find the right one.<BR/><BR/>Function key aside, I love Lenovo keyboards.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14479991920949908048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-14187588134218094132008-12-05T19:42:00.000-08:002008-12-05T19:42:00.000-08:00Then make sure you complete that survey I linked t...Then make sure you complete that survey I linked to and let Lenovo know how upset you are. Then we can see if they are really listening.Matthew Rochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17230399970488763978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8600927897234142120.post-40199847564108084072008-12-05T18:01:00.000-08:002008-12-05T18:01:00.000-08:00I have a Lenovo, I thought I was the only crazy on...I have a Lenovo, I thought I was the only crazy one about this out there. I hate the placement of this key. IT DRIVES me MAD!Carolus Holmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03780785540721269994noreply@blogger.com